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Infertility and Body Image

May 13, 2008 - Tuesday
8:00 PM to 9:00 PM (EST)
Guest Speakers: Andrea Braverman, Ph.D., RMA of New Jersey

Categories


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[Tue May 13 16:52:22 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanGood evening Corey.
[Tue May 13 16:53:05 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelan To[Private] Andrea_BravermanHi there, welcome. If you need to speak to me privately, you can clock directly on my name and this screen will pop up. I am going to type in an intro for you now.
[Tue May 13 16:53:35 PDT 2008] Andrea_Braverman To[Private] Corey_WhelanExcellent. Will do.
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[Tue May 13 16:57:34 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanGood evening and welcome. Tonight we are very lucky to have Dr. Andrea Braverman of Reproductive Medicine Associates with us as our guest speaker. Dr. Braverman will be discussing Infertiliity and the impact that your, or your loved ones, treatment and diagnosis may be having on body image. She will be on hand to answer any of your questions, however. Welcome, Dr. Braverman!
[Tue May 13 16:57:54 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanThank you for having me.
[Tue May 13 16:58:30 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanOur pleasure. We officially begin at eight, but annaj, please feel free to ask your questions earlier, or, we can simply relax for a few minutes.
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[Tue May 13 17:02:16 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelansorry, I got bounced off for a few seconds. Welcome all. Dr. Braverman, can you tell us your thoughts about our topic tonight?
[Tue May 13 17:03:14 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanInfertility takes it toll on so many things including body image. Put together the fact that you have to be in "patient" mode and the feeling that your body is working the way you want it to and you have a good recipie for a lot of feelings and reactions.
[Tue May 13 17:04:04 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanI remember that I always felt fat when I was actively ttc. Is anyone currently in treatment now?
[Tue May 13 17:04:59 PDT 2008] annaji'm currently in treatment. fet scheduled for end of may. this is our 3rd ivf/icsi cycle, and it's really taken it's toll.
[Tue May 13 17:05:27 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanI'm sorry annaj.
[Tue May 13 17:06:24 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanThat must be really hard on you. Have you seen a change in the way you think about your body?
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[Tue May 13 17:08:14 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi Cheebo, welcome. We are chatting with Dr. Andrea Braverman on infertility and body image - a difficult concept under the easiest circumstances!
[Tue May 13 17:08:14 PDT 2008] annaji've always had body image issues, but definitely there's been a change. we're doing ivf/icsi primarily due to male factor issues, but i still feel that my body cannot do what it's supposed to do. also, my body has changed a lot throughout all of these cycles. although my weight's about the same, i've put on a lot of weight in my abdominal area that i can't get rid of.
[Tue May 13 17:09:27 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanIronically, that's where most of us put on weight and it's the hardest place to get rid of weight. So you have your body not cooperating with you and your shape changes. Of course, we then often cope with stress eating and the cycle reinforces itself.
[Tue May 13 17:10:08 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanUnlike the supermodels, no one goes around airbrushing us. So we also have distorted body images out there for us to compare ourselves to.
[Tue May 13 17:10:13 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelancheeboo, you're in treatment now, aren't you?
[Tue May 13 17:10:48 PDT 2008] annaji haven't even been stress eating, in fact probably eating less than before. i just feel powerless over my body, not only in relation to reproduction but also the way it looks.
[Tue May 13 17:11:37 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanFair enough. It's that feeling of being out of control that comes up again and again. And we focus on what our body isn't doing well and never what it is doing well.
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[Tue May 13 17:11:53 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi francesca, welcome
[Tue May 13 17:12:17 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanAre there things that you do that make you feel more in connection with you body or less disappointed in it?
[Tue May 13 17:13:31 PDT 2008] annaji try not to focus on it, try to keep healthy and think about the things i'm eating in terms of health and preparing my body for the fet.
[Tue May 13 17:13:44 PDT 2008] francescaHi Andrea, this is Piave. I haven't changed my screen name.
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[Tue May 13 17:14:50 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanThat's a great strategy annaj. Trying to be "friends" and treat your body kindly and well is great. But it's not always easy I know. But focusing on staying healthy and controlling what you can is a good strategy.
[Tue May 13 17:15:34 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi teacher, nice to see you
[Tue May 13 17:15:52 PDT 2008] teacher422thank you!
[Tue May 13 17:16:04 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanAt the risk of causing scandal, can I lob out the question to the group about whether having your sex life take a hit during treatment also affects your body image?
[Tue May 13 17:17:15 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanOr do you find that you have changed how you exercise? If less, does that make your body feel or look different?
[Tue May 13 17:18:16 PDT 2008] francescaSex was only for procreation, so the sexy was taken out.
[Tue May 13 17:19:00 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanThat happens to a lot of people. It's hard to feel sexy when sex is on demand and there is so much pressure on it.
[Tue May 13 17:20:10 PDT 2008] annajin a sense we were lucky that since it's impossible for us to conceive without ivf/icsi, we haven't been under the pressure where we have to have sex for the sole purpose of procreation. that being said, though, i find sex extremely sad given that it just reminds me that it will never lead to conception.
[Tue May 13 17:20:54 PDT 2008] francescaIn terms of exercise, I began to challenge myself more to become more physically fit in ways I wouldn't normally have done.
[Tue May 13 17:21:19 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanThere is a sadness that accompanies sex when it can't lead to conception. Sometimes it takes work to focus on the feelings of being close and enjoyment and try to keep the sad thoughts at bay.
[Tue May 13 17:22:21 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanSo exercise becomes a way to work with your body to make it work with you instead of not with you.
[Tue May 13 17:23:14 PDT 2008] Andrea_Braverman To[Private] Corey_WhelanIs there anything else I should be doing? This is so different from the last session....
[Tue May 13 17:23:51 PDT 2008] francescaYes, I did feel I was able to appreciate the way my body felt when I pushed myself.
[Tue May 13 17:23:55 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelan To[Private] Andrea_BravermanI know, because it's a smaller group and they are shy about the topic. You're doing just fine, hang in there
[Tue May 13 17:24:29 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelan To[Private] Andrea_Bravermanthe last few weeks, we've been competing with American Idol, I know it sounds crazy, but women have been rsvping no with that as the reason!!
[Tue May 13 17:26:09 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanIt's funny. This often goes both ways. I talk to a lot of men and women who can really throw themselves into exerecise and feel like they are making themselves healthy and strong. More often, I find that a lot of women tell me that they stop exercising many times during their treatment because it feels hard to get motivated. Add to that the hope that there will be a pregnancy and the concern about what working out might do.... it's very busy in everyone's thoughts and feelings.
[Tue May 13 17:26:51 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanHas anyone tried yoga or acupuncture?
[Tue May 13 17:27:13 PDT 2008] annaji get occasional massages.
[Tue May 13 17:27:34 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanBrenda Strong's yoga for fertility dvd and also her yoga for couples dvd are great tools, btw
[Tue May 13 17:27:57 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanMassages are a great way to take care of yourself physically and mentally. It can bring back the connection between your body and yourself.
[Tue May 13 17:29:26 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelaneven something as simple as manicures, the hand massages, really can help
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[Tue May 13 17:30:33 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanOne thing to think about is trying to be more mindful in both body and emotion. We often get distanced from our body in this. Sometime try just sitting and eating a piece of fruit and really experiencing it. Pay attention to how it smells, feels, tastes and being in the moment. No doing it while watching tv or reading a book. Connecting with your body in a positive way.
[Tue May 13 17:32:45 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanand it's not as if we're all feeling like supermodels prior to going into this, most of us already have some body image issues of one kind or another
[Tue May 13 17:32:54 PDT 2008] Andrea_Braverman To[Private] Corey_WhelanIt doesn't sound crazy at all
[Tue May 13 17:33:22 PDT 2008] teacher422Being "in the moment" is something I am working on...."being present" so I am not stressed about the future and what may or may not happen! controlling what I can "in the now"!
[Tue May 13 17:33:27 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanSo true. If you look at studies of the percentage of women who have issues with their bodies, it's pretty impressive.
[Tue May 13 17:33:44 PDT 2008] annajit's hard not to feel betrayed by my body, though
[Tue May 13 17:34:10 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanBeing in the moment is exactly what you do have control over. It doesn't mean that thoughts are going to intrude. But you can work at being here right now.
[Tue May 13 17:34:19 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanso odd, why this is such an issue for women. Very rarely for men I think. Andrea, do you think that men experience this type of thing during infertility treatment?
[Tue May 13 17:35:18 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanIt is extremely hard not to feel betrayed by your body. I think men feel it too. Particulary on who has what diagnosis. Men think their sperm should be able to fertilize an egg even if it's three states over. They have a lot of pressure on them too.
[Tue May 13 17:36:08 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanFor those of you who do feel betrayed, it's important to explore how you feel your body betrayed you.
[Tue May 13 17:36:45 PDT 2008] francescaI think being unable to protect their partners from pain is also very difficult for men and causes them to question their manhood.
[Tue May 13 17:36:49 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanSorry, didn't finish that thought. So pay attention to what negative thoughts you've got going on. Sometimes we really beat ourselves up without even realizing it.
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[Tue May 13 17:38:31 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanMen often feel they should fix things. There's nothing to fix here. No extra ovarian exercises, no testicular push ups to fix things. So the experience and expectations of our bodies can be very different between men and woman - and just as how we are as individuals.
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[Tue May 13 17:39:17 PDT 2008] annajmy husband's come a long way in accepting that he can't "make this better" but can help by being present with me.
[Tue May 13 17:39:25 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi frances and mgm. We are chatting with Dr. Andrea Braverman, please feel free to jump in at any time.
[Tue May 13 17:39:37 PDT 2008] mgmThank you.
[Tue May 13 17:40:41 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanInfertility certainly is a process and we all change how we feel and cope as we go along. Remember, more women like to process their feelings and talk with one another than men. But we work on compromising and take turns with each other's coping strategies.
[Tue May 13 17:40:43 PDT 2008] mgmHow do I see the conversation to this point please?
[Tue May 13 17:41:26 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanyou can click on action, and then on room h istory
[Tue May 13 17:41:45 PDT 2008] mgmFeel absolutely hopeless.
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[Tue May 13 17:42:33 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanmgm, I am so very very sorry.
[Tue May 13 17:43:32 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanFeeling hopeless is an awful feeling. So one of the strategies we had discussed is pulling apart what negative thoughts and things you are telling yourself. By identifying those hopeless thoughts you can start to evaluate what seem reasonable and which ones might not be. It makes it more a fair fight with yourself.
[Tue May 13 17:45:11 PDT 2008] mgmThank you Andrea. True words, hard to put into action. Please tell me has anyone talked about stopping/slowing down exercize while ttc?
[Tue May 13 17:45:47 PDT 2008] annaji appreciate what you're saying re: cbt strategies and balancing cognitions and all, but the emotions of this experience are completely overwhelming, and i think there's a tendency then to blame oneself for having these intense, negative emotions . sometimes they just need to be felt and to acknowledge that this is a hard situation.
[Tue May 13 17:46:13 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanReally hard to put into action. It is so easy and natural to do. We talked a bit about exercise. I've found your doctor is the best one to advise what's okay to do and not to do. It also depends what treatment you are doing.
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[Tue May 13 17:47:29 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi mhobbins, welcome. We only have about fifteen minutes left so please don't hesitate to ask your questions of Dr. Andrea Braverman
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[Tue May 13 17:47:52 PDT 2008] mhobbinsHello everyone. I was coming to check it out. Forgot until now.
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[Tue May 13 17:48:46 PDT 2008] Andrea_Bravermanannaj you make a very good point. Sometimes feelings have to be felt. You can't just keep pushing them away. But it is important to keep an eye on the negative messages we tell ourselves that make the feelings worse. Sadness has to be experienced. But telling yourself you are defective is just beating up on yourself for example. So reframing and understanding that you are sad that your body isn't working the way you want it to is fair but telling yourself it's failing you is another.
[Tue May 13 17:49:41 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanBut nothing beats a good cry sometimes. We spend so much time coping and being strong that it's okay sometimes not to be strong and just feel.
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[Tue May 13 17:50:12 PDT 2008] mgmHonestly, thank you. But how does one stop telling oneself that one is "defective" when one really IS defective? Having a baby is a normal, natural part of life for most people.
[Tue May 13 17:50:18 PDT 2008] Corey_WhelanHi hoping, welcome.
[Tue May 13 17:50:27 PDT 2008] hopinghi everyone!
[Tue May 13 17:51:00 PDT 2008] francescaYOU are not defective. A part of your body does not work properly, but YOU are not your reproductive tract.
[Tue May 13 17:51:18 PDT 2008] mgmGood point. Just feels like it....
[Tue May 13 17:51:57 PDT 2008] annaji think it's important to acknowledge what is a feeling and what is a thought, but that being said the feelings are horrible.
[Tue May 13 17:52:34 PDT 2008] francescaI know it feels like it, but we are much more than just our parts or functions that we perform-mother, sister, daughter, wife.
[Tue May 13 17:52:35 PDT 2008] mgmInfertility defines who we are in many ways (does me, anyway) so having a non-working reporductive tract does make one feel defective overall... thank you for these thoughts.
[Tue May 13 17:52:36 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanIt's a fine line between acknowledging that your body isn't doing what you want it do and it being defective in all the negative way we put the spin on it. So I think it's working a truce between you and your body. Accepting that it is doing as much it can and that doesn't make you defective. How often do you stop and say - hey body, thanks for doing that heart and lung thing so well. So we have to accept ourselves as a whole and not just single out one part of it.
[Tue May 13 17:53:42 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanGood points everyone. You wouldn't tell someone with high blood pressure they are defective, right? And you'd never tell someone you love they are defective if they had infertility, right?
[Tue May 13 17:54:22 PDT 2008] mgmYes, that's true. But when it is oneself, one naturally feels defective.
[Tue May 13 17:54:28 PDT 2008] annajinfertility gets at the core of who we are (at least for a lot of us women) in a way that nothing else body-related does.
[Tue May 13 17:54:41 PDT 2008] mgmExcellent point.
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[Tue May 13 17:55:56 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanNaturally we feel defective. It does get to the core of what we expect of ourselves. But the next time you are beating up on yourself, just think about how you'd respond if it was your partner saying these to you about himself. I betcha you wouldn't agree with him that he's defective. You'd be sympathetic about the feelings. But think about how you'd try to reframe it for him.
[Tue May 13 17:56:15 PDT 2008] annajinfertility is an existential issue. it's hard not to feel like a failure at a crucial part of life. and i'm not blaming myself or saying that i've failed but i feel that this is a huge loss and failure.
[Tue May 13 17:56:21 PDT 2008] mgmHow true that is. Thank you.
[Tue May 13 17:56:27 PDT 2008] francescamgm, I think we can become a little narrow in our conceptions of ourselves in our struggle to have a child. It is a very all consuming thing that pushes out everything else we value about ourselves. Those things are still there, just overshadowed right now.
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[Tue May 13 17:57:34 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanAnd it's important to acknowledge and feel that loss. But after that, and letting the feelings out, we also have to balance it with doing the work of trying to see the "big picture".
[Tue May 13 17:58:22 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanBut I have huge respect for how consuming the needs and desire to have a child is. This is like asking you to do work with explosives and not lego blocks.
[Tue May 13 17:58:26 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanguys, we only have about three minutes left, just letting you know
[Tue May 13 17:58:32 PDT 2008] annaji think you might be underestimating the impact this has on one's life. it's not something you can get over and balance so easily.
[Tue May 13 17:59:41 PDT 2008] mgmDr., thanks so much for your compassion tonight. I only caught half but you have made excellent points, particularly about what I might way to my husband.
[Tue May 13 18:00:02 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanYou never get balance or get over it. It is a part of you. It would be like asking you to get over losing a limb. I'm just encouraging to add balance when and where you can. When you aren't hurting too much. So that you don't have to hurt all the time if possible.
[Tue May 13 18:00:02 PDT 2008] mgm**what I might say to my husband...
[Tue May 13 18:00:43 PDT 2008] hopingi can understand the thought of trying to see the big picture, but the fact that this is so permanent is hard.
[Tue May 13 18:01:04 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanhoping, NOTHING is permanent
[Tue May 13 18:01:26 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanjust my two cents
[Tue May 13 18:01:33 PDT 2008] mgmGoodnight everyone. Many thanks.
[Tue May 13 18:01:52 PDT 2008] hopingthanks, i do agree...we've started on the process of adoption.
[Tue May 13 18:02:03 PDT 2008] francescaMaybe it would be helpful to look at what being a mother means-all your fantasies, assumptions, expectations-to get a better define the loss.
[Tue May 13 18:02:21 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanAlso it's hard going out into the world that is constantly coming at you with happy fertile people. Commercials, movies, books, and even stupid bumper stickers on cars that say "baby on board" are always around you nad have to manage. It's beyond tough.
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[Tue May 13 18:03:50 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanfolks, we are actually out of time, but as always, I want to invite you guys to stay in the chat room as long as you would like to. But we need to let Dr. Braverman go! Dr. Braverman, I want to thank you so much for being here and taking on this very challenging issue. Thanks so very much.
[Tue May 13 18:04:05 PDT 2008] hopingthanks!
[Tue May 13 18:04:13 PDT 2008] mgmChurch communities are particularly hard in this regard.. you are married for a short time and everyone is coming at you firing questions.
[Tue May 13 18:04:41 PDT 2008] Andrea_BravermanIt was my pleasure. My thoughts and support go out to everyone. I will wish everyone only good things. Thanks for allowing me to join your conversation.
[Tue May 13 18:04:41 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanyikes mgm. good luck.
[Tue May 13 18:04:49 PDT 2008] mgmbaby dedications, baby showers, praising parents, etc.
[Tue May 13 18:05:12 PDT 2008] Andrea_Braverman To[Private] Corey_WhelanDo I just X out now?
[Tue May 13 18:05:31 PDT 2008] hoping left.
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[Tue May 13 18:05:47 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelan To[Private] Andrea_Bravermanthat's all you need to do kiddo. Thanks so much; as always you did a great job. Be well, I'll be in touch soon about the conference
[Tue May 13 18:06:08 PDT 2008] mgmIs the chat over now?
[Tue May 13 18:06:09 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanthank YOU. Guys, thanks so much and I will see you all next week. mgm, if you need to speak further PLEASE call the AFA helpline to chat or for support.
[Tue May 13 18:06:18 PDT 2008] Andrea_Braverman To[Private] Corey_WhelanThanks. Happy to help. I hope I helped a bit. You take care of yourself kiddo!
[Tue May 13 18:06:26 PDT 2008] mgmMany thanks.
[Tue May 13 18:06:38 PDT 2008] Corey_Whelanyes, it's over but ya'll can stay if you'd like. I need to leave however. best of luck to you
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[Tue May 13 18:07:44 PDT 2008] mhobbinsCan anyone tell me if she talked much about body image at the beginning of the chat. I missed it but was interested to hear what she said about it.
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[Tue May 13 18:09:53 PDT 2008] teacher422Sorry!...I cam in late too! Good noght!
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[Tue May 13 18:13:27 PDT 2008] mgmsomeone told me to click on actions, then past/recent chats. The entire conversation comes up.
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[Tue May 13 18:14:48 PDT 2008] mgmGood night ladies. Youhave been great.
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[Tue May 13 18:18:48 PDT 2008] mhobbinsThank you!
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